by Rob Govier | 13 Apr 2016 | Engineering | 33 comments
First of all, I’ve got to make it very clear that moving a BT Infinity Master Socket (or any other BT master socket) isn’t really something you should do. (Well, not officially…). It’s the equivalent of moving your gas or electricity meter. It’s the supplier’s (or their suppliers) equipment. In this case, it’s Openreach. But happily that’s not the end of the story. You don’t have to keep tripping over your modem as you come in the front door.
The Big Master Socket Issue
I’ve blogged elsewhere on thisBT master socket issue . I’ve never heard of someone actually being fined for moving it.But if the Openreach engineer comes to see you to sort a fault and finds that you’ve obviously moved your socket or jointed your cables in anunsuitable manner, he’ll bill you for the work to bring it back up to Openreach network standard. He’s entitled to, because you’ve fiddled with what’s technically part of Openreach’s network. Now you wouldn’t go lifting up manholes in the streets and fiddling with their cables, would you?
Fibre is “Something Else”
And another key thing I need to tell you – if your broadband arrives via optical fibre, you won’t be able to move the “BT infinity master socket”. Optical fibre is nothing like copper cable to your house. It’s complex, delicate and potentially dangerous stuff. It needs a box on your wall called an “Optical Network Termination”to connect between your modem and Openreach’s network.
Copper is More Flexible
However, if your broadband arrives by a traditional copper cable, it’s not that different to the broadband you probably had before, except of a faster type (called VDSL2). However, BT only promise higher speeds when they can try and dictate how the broadband is distributed in your house. So it has a specific type of master socket, and a specific type of cable to run an extension. More on this later.
You Can Move Your Router…
So, having said all this, you don’t have to put up with having your router next to the BT infinity master socket. You can transfer what comes in to your house to somewhere else in the building. Plus you won’t lose speed if you follow some clear guidelines.
…Via Ethernet
One option is to run an ethernet cable from the sockets on the router to another ethernet socket in your house, even up to 90 metres away. The ethernet (a.k.a. Cat 5/Cat 6) cable is capable of high speeds. But your router would stay by the door.
…Or Here’s A Better Way:-
The second is to leave your BT infinity master socket where it is. Then run a new cable from it to another “master socket”-type socket. Now, care needs to be taken here that the cable is of a suitable quality, that is, solid-core, copper, twisted-pair telephone cable.
There’s Cable. And Then There’s “Other Stuff”
This is critical, trust me! A cable is more than just a piece of wire between two points. Bad cable can slow down good broadband. You can read more about this on my blog here
Professional-quality cable, of specificationCW1308 can be bought by the length on eBay and elsewhere. Some of this might be manufactured by “BT Cables”. It’s the stuff that Openreach probably use themselves. And the appropriate sockets are available, too.
Connections Between the A’s and B’s
The first BT infinity master socket has two pins, markedA and B , onto which a single pair of wires from the cable can be attached. These simply duplicate what comes into your house. So, if you have a second socket, of a similar design to the first, they can connect to A and B on that.
Providing the cable is run away from things like microwaves, TVs, monitors, light fittings, this cable won’t slow the speed down.
Just don’t connect anything else to it on the way. Really, if you truly value your speed, then just don’t!
Don’t Trust The Old Stuff
And don’t use existing cable. You will never know what a previous owner may have connected to it. Plus, you don’t know where it has been in the house, picking up electrical interference on the way.
Just to reassure you, your broadband already runs on similar cable. The cable from that street cabinet which says “Superfast Broadband is Here” to your building. It’s copper, twisted-pair cable, running underground, up poles and through overhead cables to your house. The last few metres from one socket to another won’t make much difference to speed. Providing the correct type of cable is run correctly through the building.
Help Is At Hand
It’s not all that difficult. But if you’re struggling, and live in the Middlesbrough, Stockton on Tees, Darlington, Co. Durham or North Yorkshire areas, please get in touch, as I’m not too far away. And I may be able to help.
D Steelon 15th August 2016 at 15:48
Hi
What are your thoughts on Powerline adopters as an alternative when the master socket is located several floors from the master ?Reply
Rob Govieron 15th August 2016 at 19:52
I’ve never seen one run incoming ADSL/VDSL! Putting one on the exchange side of a master socket would be very naughty. BT/OR are very cautious about connecting anything 240AC to their network. However, folks do use them for ethernet connection between the hub and a socket and device. Sometimes they work well, sometimes not at all due to the config of the mains wiring. Dedicated copper is always best. I hope this helps. Rob
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Billyon 5th February 2017 at 21:35
Hi
Interesting stuff !!
I have BT infinity and the router is next to the master socket in the hall. I’d like to move the router into an adjacent room and was wondering, rather than mess around with sockets and twisted pair wiring, could I just run an extra long rj11 cable from the master socket, under the floor, and plug it back into the router ? The rj11 cable would be around 12 feet.cheers
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Rob Govieron 6th February 2017 at 05:53
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, this is feasible, but most RJ11 leads I find are not twisted-pair (they look like telephone line cord), and are designed for short connection, such as 1.5M between a router and adjacent socket.
At 12 feet, you will probably cause some degradation of the signal.
I was astonished when I removed around the same length of flat “under-carpet” cable from a room, and saw the speed leap immediately up by a couple of Mb.
Twisted pair, be that Cat 5 (or 6), or quality voice cable is always the best solution. It’s used on Openreach’s network and millions of business premises.
I hope that this helps.
Rob
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Phil Evanson 17th April 2017 at 16:37
I have a FTTC connection from open reach with sky broadband. The box, when fitted, has been positioned on a wall in the hall in front of a piano and now we want to get the piano out to decorate it won’t come past the box and cannot be moved sideways to avoid it. Sky say they are not allowed to move the box and Openreach say contact the supplier. Sky’s only suggestion was to employ an independent tel engineer or electrician. Your write up says this is not permitted. I have to at least disconnect the box and then reconnect it after the piano has moved. Is this possible?
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Rob Govieron 17th April 2017 at 18:11
Hello,
Thanks for the contact. An utterly frustrating situation for you, and quite common!
Strictly, Sky should ask Openreach to do the work. They would probably charge around £130.00 for a ten-minute job.
Our blogs have to reflect the official situation regarding moving master sockets. However, we understand that certain independent engineers move them regularly… 😉
There’s no great technical complexity to them – they are simply a boundary marker and test point. Simply make a note of what’s connected where, pull the incoming and extension-side cables off, and you’re done. Move the piano. Reconnect.
If you do need the services of an independent engineer, let me have your postcode, and I’ll see who I can find, as I network with quite a few from Scotland to Cornwall. Rob.
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Lee Snellon 21st April 2017 at 10:56
Hi, some great tips however I rebuilt my home 5 years ago and had a guy run some extensions from the master socket (located in our back bedroom) downstairs so I could position the router down there. Was working fine on my old broadband but since upgrading to fibre a few years ago BT came out and replaced the old master socket to this one, since then the extensions no longer works? frustratingly the phone works in all extensions but not the internet? Can you offer any advice? The master socket is an Openreach MK2 one with internet connection at top and phone underneath, I’ve removed the faceplate and the extensions (blue and white, blue, orange) seem to be connected to lines 2,3 and 5. I did make do with powerline adapters for a while however I’ve now upgraded to Vodafone and since then powerline offer rubbish speeds hence looking at going back to using the installed extensions?
Many thanks LeeReply
Rob Govieron 22nd April 2017 at 04:48
Thanks for the kind words.
I’m a bit confused by the phones working but the broadband not working – normally, if you have a tone, then you’ll get broadband.
I’d suggest setting up a second “Master” socket (actually a “slave” to the first. See my blog “How to Move Your Master Socket without actually moving it). This explains the use of the pins “A” and “B” on the socket. You could use existing cabling to run off these, but I’l recommend running a new cable if possible, then you can be sure of it’s quality and avoidance of any interference sources. Rob.
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Kev Downeson 21st October 2017 at 16:21
HI,
I have done this and it works fine – sort of – download speed remains the same however upload speed has dropped from 20mb to 1mb. i have only extended the cable by 3m – any ideas ?Cheers
kev
i am on bt infinity in hartlepool
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Rob Govieron 21st October 2017 at 16:50
No idea. Sorry. If you get the same problem when connected onto the test port of the master socket, that is, with nothing else connected, then it’s the provider’s problem, and I’d suggest taking it up with them.
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Karlon 11th November 2017 at 12:38
Hi got broadband upstairs in master. Socket yet want to put it in standard socket downstairs is this possible ?
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Rob Govieron 12th November 2017 at 08:11
Hello,
In most cases it’s possible – it depends on any potential “challenges” in running the cable. If you need to find an engineer local to you, please let me have your postcode.
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Jon Bon 24th November 2017 at 18:58
Hi,
I am looking at installing Infinity into my mothers bungalow, the master socket is in the hall, where there is no power, and the current EE adsl hub is in the lounge. Is it possible to use the existing cable in the wall to serve the extension socket with infinity, but also retain the phone function as well at the extension end? i.e. also fit a version 2 master type box at the location of the existing extension… so send data and audio on the existing extension cable from master to extension?
Many Thanks
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Rob Govieron 25th November 2017 at 08:34
Hello,
This sounds feasible, and it’s a common configuration, assuming that by “Infinity”,you mean their service delivered over copper to the house,not fibre.
I would recommend running a speed test, such as found at speedtest.net to see if there is any loss over the cable from master to secondary. If so,consider recabling. Also, only use wires on 2 and 5 – this is all that is needed. Don’t connect the others, as they can cause interference.
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Nigel Millson 2nd March 2018 at 08:52
Hello. I was wondering whether it was possible to send ethernet over a bt cable to a master socket extension point? I want my router at the front door (in the middle of the house) and getting ethernet to the other side of the house will be unsightly.
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Rob Govieron 2nd March 2018 at 08:59
Hello, Data normally uses two pairs of cables,and voice one. Fine if you can use two pairs in the voice cable.
However, I never, ever try and carry data over voice cables,as the spec of the cable (rate of twist,etc) isdifferent, and you may end up with speed loss and odd faults. I really try to keep everything straightforward, as there are enough unforeseen problems in this industry anyway!
A good independent engineer would probably come up with an unobtrusive solution using external Cat5 cable and/or rerouting the incoming BT line. It all depends on the characteristics of the building and requirements. Cable does not need to look like washing line.
Drop me a mail with your postcode and I’ll see if I can find you an engineer.
Rob
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Denny Hon 4th February 2020 at 15:42
Hi Rob
Great site – very helpful information.I have Superfast Fibre Halo 1 with Complete Wi-Fi and my master socket is by the front door. There is also a 2nd socket in the lounge which, as far as I can tell, doesn’t seem to be connected – there’s no dial tone/internet connection. At the moment I’m using BT powerline adapters. I don’t really want wires ‘trailing’ round the skirting; is it likely that the BT engineer will be able to connect the master to the 2nd socket (or even replace one with the other)?
Thanks in advance
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Rob Govieron 4th February 2020 at 15:48
Thanks for your kind words.
If you already have a service to your master socket, then anything beyond there is up to you to install – Openreach may be able to do the work on instruction from your service provider, but they will charge significantly more than an independent engineer. I have engineering contacts across the UK, so might be able to put you in touch with one who could reconfigure your cabling quickly and economically.
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Tim Owenon 1st March 2020 at 13:13
Dear Rob
We have a BT socket by our front door, with nearest power supply under the stairs,
I was thinking of moving to Sky and the adviser said that if you don’t need to keep your Virgin phone number we can get Openreach to put you a new socket next to a power supply before we connect Sky. I was wondering are they just going to run a cable inside the house from the old BT socket to the new Openreach socket, with cable running round skirting and architrave, as I don’t think the wife it going to be happy.
I put in a phone extension socket from my Virgin socket to a socket under the stairs to move the phone line away from the door, that I run around the edge of the flooring planking and covered with beading,
This was a phone extension kit and the wire is very thin. What I have read on your site so far about cable size and quality I don’t think this is going to be suitable to do the same for the Openreach socket. Thank you for advice and helpReply
Rob Govieron 2nd March 2020 at 09:04
Hello.
You wrote:-
We have a BT socket by our front door, with nearest power supply under the stairs,
I was thinking of moving to Sky and the adviser said that if you don’t need to keep your Virgin phone number we can get Openreach to put you a new socket next to a power supply before we connect Sky. I was wondering are they just going to run a cable inside the house from the old BT socket to the new Openreach socket, with cable running round skirting and architrave, as I don’t think the wife it going to be happy.>I doubt if they would run a cable internally for you. If they did, they may not do it neatly. These Openreach folks are often in a terrible hurry to meet targets. You don’t really have much say on where they put it. Their responsibility is just to provide a circuit to the property. This is usually by means of activating an old cable. This is rarely in the right place.
I put in a phone extension socket from my Virgin socket to a socket under the stairs to move the phone line away from the door, that I run around the edge of the flooring planking and covered with beading,
This was a phone extension kit and the wire is very thin. What I have read on your site so far about cable size and quality I don’t think this is going to be suitable to do the same for the Openreach socket.>My recommendation would be to get an independent local telephone engineer to reroute the existing BT cable externally and bring it in through a wall neat to where you want your router. I do this work regularly, and cables can be installed discreetly. Let me have your postcode, and I’ll see if I have a local contact.
Thank you for advice and help
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Rob
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DJNon 11th August 2021 at 17:00
Hi – is there any advantage using cat 5e or 6 over cw1308 to move the vdsl service 10-15 metres?
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Rob Govieron 11th August 2021 at 17:14
Hello,
Any advantage would be marginal. The VDSL service has already travelled over 1000M or so over CW1308-type cable anyway.
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DJNon 11th August 2021 at 19:53
Hi Rob. Thanks for the reply.
I asked the question as I have some old Cat 5e and 6 knocking about so may do a bit of testing to see what the speed impact is.I also have 50 metres of cw1308 that I picked up from b&q (caught my eye as it was in offer for £2 at the time)
So I’ll test and will report back for the benefit of any interested parties.
Cheers.
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Tonyon 4th October 2021 at 19:28
I have done the above connected Cat 6 cable to A-B and immediately my speed drops from 57.4Mbps to 43Mbps!!
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Rob Govieron 4th October 2021 at 19:37
There may be some issue with the cable or termination. Use of A and B is/was endorsed by BT when the first type of this socket (with A and B) was produced some years ago, It’s a procedure that is generally acknowledged to work well
It’s difficult to determine why you should have lost so much speed. One possibility is that the cable is picking up interference from another electrical device.
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Tonyon 5th October 2021 at 17:40
Hi Rob, and thanks for your comments.
I must say it’s very frustrating, it’s even worst with cat5 cable down to 33Mbps!!Reply
Rob Govieron 5th October 2021 at 17:49
I would look at the subject of REIN and SHINE, namely radio and electrical interference.
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Andy Ton 18th November 2021 at 16:08
Hi Rob, I have been having a lot of disconnections on my Plusnet Fibre package this week, not enough space to “re-post” it all on here but PLEASE could you read my post on this forum link below (you can skip straight to message 29 if you don’t have time to read the whole post):
Thank you in advance.
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Rob Govieron 20th November 2021 at 14:54
I had a quick skate through the Plusnet forum posts. Apologies if I’ve missed anything.
I am quite “binary” on these kind of issues. For “binary” read “focussed”.
1/ Stick your router straight into the master socket. Does everything work? If “yes”, then the issue is with your internal cables.
2/If “no”, then kick this back to Plusnet, who will mobilise Openreach.
Plusnet customer services are one of my favoured contacts. You may be queued for some time, but when you finally do get through, it’s to an intelligent operative.
Rob.
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Frankon 6th February 2022 at 12:57
Hi
I have just installed patch cabinet and i have run a cat6 cable to the front of the house. Can I now connect the 2 core incoming telecom line fed from the telegraph pole to the cat6 to act as my new telephone linel?Reply
Rob Govieron 6th February 2022 at 14:27
No. You still need a physical demarcation point between you network provider and your on-site cabling. This is for test purposes if/when there is a line fault. You won’t lose performance. Trust me, this tet facility is important. I note your .ie domain address.Are you UK-based?
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craig fitchon 29th July 2023 at 23:51
Reading your replies it seems master sockets are an issue for older properties with your main broad band box requiring to be fitted directly into the master socket,Our master socket is in the bedroom,Having a four bedroom house this means we have had connectivity problems.When we had an orange box we could have it on extension into another room which was more central now it seems we can’t.Our sky connectivity is worse than bt ‘s broad brand. for example if I use the computer the t.v freezes its that bad,this is on the new sky pod system,it would be frustrating if I had to run an ethernet cable.Any suggestions
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Rob Govieron 30th July 2023 at 11:05
Hello,
“Reading your replies it seems master sockets are an issue for older properties with your main broad band box requiring to be fitted directly into the master socket”Apologies – I don’t quite understand the issue regarding older properties – BT/Openreach can put their master socket where they wish, be that in and old or new property.
“Our master socket is in the bedroom,Having a four bedroom house this means we have had connectivity problems.When we had an orange box we could have it on extension into another room which was more central now it seems we can’t”
It should be feasible to relocate the master socket, either by elimination and jointing, or running a new cable from outside, jointing externally.
“Our sky connectivity is worse than bt ‘s broad brand. for example if I use the computer the t.v freezes its that bad,this is on the new sky pod system,it would be frustrating if I had to run an ethernet cable.Any suggestions”
Either seek an indpendent engineer’s advice via a site visit, or try using an item like the Tenda Nova MW6, which plugs into the back of your router, and relays the wifi signal via a series of wireless repeaters. They are easy to install, cheap to buy, and highly effective.
I hope that this helps.
Reply
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